8. Berenice: An overwhelming, vulnerable, miraculous first year | Episode 8

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We’re joined today by Berenice. Berenice is a mother of three and a social worker in California who shares about an overwhelming, vulnerable, and miraculous first year.

She talks about all of the adjustment that she and her family went through in that first year, how her relationship with her partner was tested, and how they learned the importance of co-regulation and extending grace to each other to strengthen their relationship. Berenice shares about her experience with postpartum depression and anxiety and what it looked like to get help - eventually - and some of the grief she experienced with an unexpected pregnancy that threw off her timeline and expectations of motherhood, along with the fun and joy of a full household. 

Berenice talks about:

• Adjusting to motherhood when it came sooner than expected

• Communication habits and supports that she and her husband put into place to strengthen their relationship

• Postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety

• How it’s never too late to get help and heal - and seeking support after her third baby

Resources:

Postpartum Depression: What You Need to Know

How to Manage Postpartum Anxiety and Scary Thoughts

Communication Habits of Successful Couples

Postpartum Support International

Solly Baby Wrap (use code POPPY.THERAPY10 for a 10% off Solly Baby discount code)

Transcript:

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Today's guest on Our First Year is Berenice.
Berenice is a mother of three and a social worker who shares about an overwhelming, vulnerable, and miraculous first year. Berenice talks about all of the adjustment that she and her family went through in the first year, feeling like her relationship with her partner was tested and strained and how they came out the other side knowing the importance of co-regulation. She talks about what postpartum depression and anxiety looked like for her, and some of the grief that she experienced with an unexpected pregnancy and things not looking the way that she expected them to in postpartum. In talking with Berenice, I was really struck by how much self-compassion she has and just all the wisdom that she shares in this episode.
I hope that you'll enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed talking with her. Thank you so much for joining us, Berenice!

Berenice:

Yeah. I'm excited.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Tell me a little bit about yourself and your family.

Berenice:

Yeah. So my name is Berenice. I'm thirty five years old, and I live in Southern California. I'm a social worker. And I'm married, I have three kids, ages nine, five, and two.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

What three words would you use to describe your first year of motherhood?

Berenice:

Yeah. It was hard to narrow it down to three. But I would say my first year of motherhood was overwhelming, vulnerable. It felt like a very vulnerable time in my life. But at the same time, miraculous.
You know, like I could, at my worst, look at this tiny little human and feel like it was just such a miracle to have her in my arms and everything about her was miraculous. So yeah. I would say overwhelming, wonderful and miraculous.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

That is a really good description. That for sure resonates with me especially that vulnerability piece.

What was the model in your head of motherhood? What did you think that your first year would be like?

Berenice:

The model in my head was really formed by, you know, just the the other moms in my life and women in my life. I heard a lot about, like, the birth and labor period, like, that seemed really scary, but the postpartum period in that first year, I never really heard much of. Right? Like, other than you have the baby, they're cute and, like, that was that was that.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

The hard part’s done!

Berenice:
Right? Yeah. Hard part done. Exactly. So I just expected it to be like this beautiful time of, like, loving and enjoying your baby, you know, a time when there's like a lot of family support. So I'm Mexican. and in a lot of Latino cultures, there's something called la cuarentena. And it's a time when it's like forty days of, like, you're super well taken care of.
Like, you know, the grandmas come over and cook for you and clean for you. And so I, like, had that expectation of it and just felt like everyone's gonna take care of me. We're gonna have all this support and it's gonna be a beautiful time. So that was like the model in my head. You know, I also had this like timeline of when motherhood was gonna happen and all the things that were gonna set me up to be ready for it. And that really played into my expectation of what motherhood would look like. But, yeah, it it didn't turn out that way entirely.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

So how did your reality match up with that expectation?

Berenice:

Yeah. The reality was it was, like, one of the hardest years, I think, of my life. One of the hardest times in in our relationship, like with my partner. It really tested us, you know? And motherhood actually came earlier for me than expected, which is why I kinda talked about my timeline.
I had all these these plans that would set us up to be ready for parenthood. But my partner and I had a surprise pregnancy. It came a little earlier. I was in graduate school. I still had a year left.
He was still, like, very much figuring out his career. And so my first year of motherhood, there was a lot of grieving during that year, you know, of my timeline and the things that I wanted to do before motherhood, like graduate. I was able to graduate, but, you know, like, go ahead, get your job, your dream job, the traveling, the getting married, and living together. My husband, now, partner then, we weren't living together when this happened. So when we found out we were pregnant, we moved in together, and we're just navigating so many firsts, you know, for the first time in that first year.
So it was overwhelming, I think, because of that. You know, there was a lot we were working out as we were learning to be parents. And then I would say, like, another layer that kind of complicated this is that both my husband and I come from very traditional Latino Catholic backgrounds. And the expectation in these traditional backgrounds is that you're married before you start having a family and so, you know, having a child out of wedlock was like a huge deal.
You know, it was a little bit of a scandal. And it just brought up a lot. You know, it was a really tough time for us. There was, like, also some shame and, like, guilt that I was carrying with entering motherhood before I had all these these things lined up for myself. So that really was just like an additional layer.
So, like, announcing my pregnancy felt different than what I had hoped for. Right? And it kinda dulled, I think, my experience a little. You know, our families, of course, came around. They're absolutely in love with our baby and were so supportive.
But, you know, that definitely played a part in my experience the first year for sure. Yeah. I would say it was an overwhelming time. It was a time of a lot of adjustments.

It put a strain on our relationship. We were arguing about things we never had argued about before. You know, we were sleep deprived, we were tired, we were both adjusting to so much. And, you know, there was this pressure because of that additional layer I was talking about of, like, the shame around having had a baby out of wedlock where we had to really prove to our families, like, we got this. You guys don’t need to worry about this.
Right? So it made it really hard to, like, reach out and talk about our struggles that we were going through. So we were feeling, I think, a little isolated because of that. We were really trying hard to, like, just keep it together or at least present that way. Yeah. And our friends were great, you know, they were so supportive, but we were the first to have babies in our circle of friends, so they could only help so much and understand so much as well. So, yeah, it was a bit of a tough time.
And looking back now, you know, there were I never, like, got help, professional help, or reached out for support during that first year. But looking back now and, like, in processing with with my therapist, by my third child I did get help. You know, there were definitely some signs there that I probably was was going through some posptarum depression and anxiety. And just, you know, it was never really resolved. And as I learned later on, like having an unplanned pregnancy, is actually a risk factor for a lot of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders.
But, yeah, I never sought help that first year and that kind of lingered, you know, those symptoms kind of mildly for years after even. So yeah, I finally got help with my third baby. And, you know, it was really helpful. And I I wish, you know, that I’d had that support my first year. I think it would have made a world of difference for sure.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Yeah. Thank you for sharing about the hard parts because especially with an unplanned pregnancy or when things don't go according to kind of the expectation that you have in your mind, it can bring a a lot of shame that goes hand-in-hand with isolation. It's kind of the cycle.
Right? The shame leads isolation and the isolation leads to more shame and not knowing that how you're feeling is not your fault or that there's help for that.

How did you feed your baby in the first year?

Berenice:

So I I tried really hard to breastfeed. And with my first and second, they just didn't latch. So I pumped a lot. I exclusively pumped for months, I'd say, like, for nine months, I was pumping. So that was really hard.
It takes so much time to just pump. And so I almost quit many, many times and tried really hard to get to the first year.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

And what kind of support did you have with that? As someone who was the first to have kids among your friend group? What kind of resources helped support you through exclusive pumping?

Berenice:

Yeah. So no one, really. I think back to, like, family and they didn't breastfeed for very long, you know, like even, like, my mom and talking to her and my aunts, and just family around me was, like, oh, breastfeed for a month, and then you're good. You know, like, just use formula. But for me, that wasn't my goal at the time.
I really wanted to to breastfeed as long as I could. And so I didn't find, you know, a lot of support or getting tips and tricks because it hadn't been their experience either. Right? There was maybe one person that I knew who was really dedicated to breastfeeding, and she was really helpful. But there weren't many.
Right? And I never saw, like, a lactation consultant. It just kind of felt like I needed to figure it out, you know, like, I should know how to do this. I thought it was a natural instinct that would kick in. And so there was like some, I think, some guilt around that.
Right? Like, I should be able to do this for my child. But once, you know, I kind of gave up on the latch, it was painful, to not be able to to have a correct latch. I was bleeding and it was just painful. So I gave up on the latch and said, well, if I can't nurse directly, then I'm gonna still pump, you know, I have a supply and so I went that route with my first two babies and my support was my husband who was, you know, the the pump cleaner and did all the washing and that's how he helped out, you know, by giving me the time to be able to to do that and step away and pump, and then we bottle fed the pumped milk.
But yeah. And luckily though, by my third baby, I really, you know, wanted to make sure that this time we got the correct latch. And so I reached out - and by this point more of the people in my circle were having babies and so there was more people to talk to about it and I also was just becoming, I think I had become more resourceful in reaching out for help. And so by my third, you know, we were able to nurse and he latched and he's over two and still nursing, so we're still going strong.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

That's awesome. What a journey

Berenice:

Yeah. Each experience is so different, you know?

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

For sure. Yes. What was sleep like in that first year?

Berenice:

Sleep was rough. None of my babies responded well to sleep training. They just kind of hated it, and maybe I gave up too soon. I don't know. But I couldn't stand the crying.
So we we weren't able to really sleep train our babies. We did, once they were a little older, like, a little bit of co-sleeping as safely as we could. And that really helped us get through the nights. But, you know, yeah, it was definitely a rough year for all three of them. Our kids are older now and finally sleeping in their own bed.
So thankfully sleep is starting to look up for us after nine years.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

There's hope.

Berenice:

There's hope! Yeah. It just kind of felt like we got through one, they're in their bed, and then we had another one. And so it's been, you know, it just years of feeling very tired, but it's it's starting to look up, so there is hope.

SOLLY BABY

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Use the code POPPY.THERAPY10 to shop at Solly Baby for ten percent off. Alright. Back to my conversation with Berenice.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

What other challenges did you face in the first year that you didn't anticipate?

Berenice:

I was not anticipating both the postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety. And there was no plan for that. No preparation. I really didn't know much about it. And you know, I'm a social worker!
Right? I come from a mental health background, and even for us, there isn't a lot of training around that. Right? Like, what happens to moms. So, you know, much less people who don't have that background.
So, I wasn't prepared for that part. And I wasn't prepared for just the feelings of loss right, of missing your old identity and missing that control over your schedule and your life. I wasn’t prepared for that. That really was was a big part of that first year. And I didn't have that in my plans, right, to to have those feelings. So, yeah.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

And those feelings can be so hard to admit even to yourself, the grief and having such a mix of emotions can be really confusing.

Berenice:

Exactly.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

What did postpartum depression and anxiety look like for you?

Berenice:

For depression, it was irritability. I was very irritable. I was snapping at my partner, just completely thrown off my baseline and not feeling like myself. You know, I kept just repeating to my husband, I'm like, I don't feel like myself. Like, I this doesn't feel good, you know. And at first, it felt like, maybe this is the baby blues, but then once it lingered on and on, it just felt like this is not normal. You know, and I couldn't really verbalize it my first year with my first. But by the time I got to my third baby,
I know I'm completely off my baseline here. And this has lingered on way too long for it to be anything normal. Right? So there was just a lot of irritability, just a lot of crying, you know, very sad. And then the anxiety, that was intrusive thoughts, you know, just constantly checking on my children and thinking of all these worst case scenarios all the time.
That really made it hard to enjoy being with them and enjoy the moment. So that's kind of what it looked like for me.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Yeah. It sounds like it really took you away from be feeling like yourself and took you away from the moment.

Berenice:

Mhmm. Exactly.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

And you talked about how the impact of an unplanned pregnancy, a rough postpartum, all of this- the impact of it on your relationship. Can you tell us a little bit more of what that looked like and how you kind of came out the other side of that?

Berenice:

You know, we were arguing about all these new things. Like, you slept. How could you sleep through those cries? That had never come up before. And just like the resentment, right, that builds up around that.
We were both adjusting to this new role. And how we got through it is, you know, communication. Really talking about what our needs were, and that was really hard to do. Just even naming our needs. Right? What are our whats, our needs.
So communication, I would say also what's helped us, anad something that has stuck with us even to this day, is really working on co-regulation. We've had to talk a lot through, when I do snap or when I'm angry for whatever reason, it's not personal. Right? Like, it's not toward you. There is an unmet need. There is a reason why we've been thrown off our baseline. And it's hard to verbalize that need in the moment, right, and how do we work together to co-regulate ourselves. So, you know, we've we've gotten really good at when we noticed that in each other.
First, being aware of it, right, and and not taking it personal and knowing that, okay, something's wrong because this isn't their normal baseline. So they need some support right now, and what can I do? And so we've talked a lot about what's helpful for each other. So for me, for example, it's sometimes I just need a hug and it's gonna be really hard for me to verbalize it in that moment.
So when he notices that I'm getting snappy or I'm getting stressed out. You know, sometimes he doesn't even say anything, he kinda walks over and, like, holds me and just listens and lets me vent. And that helps me regulate my nervous system.
And now I'm not as angry. Now I can really talk about what's really wrong and I can really name what that need is. And so we've just gotten really good at that, but that has taken a lot of years of practice and a lot of talking through those moments, and a lot of us getting it wrong.
And sometimes, you know, after the fact, coming back to those moments and really reflecting on what was at the core of that behavior, of that action. What was it that we couldn't communicate in that moment that we really needed. So that has been, I think, the key to us getting through this.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

What you're describing is such a beautiful picture of just, like, collaboration. Of working together to support each other. And I'm so glad you named how much work it is. Because we might see relationships on the outside and be like, oh, they just know what each other needs or they're just so in sync. And we don't walk around with teleprompters on our heads telling everybody what we need.
And we have to let go of that like, romanticized idea that our partner should just know what we need. Because it's just not the reality. And so that's such a beautiful picture of the amount of work and how worth it it is to get to a point where you do know what each other needs in those moments of really, like, high emotion, low cognition, and can help each other come back to a place where you want to parent from and live from.

Berenice:

Yeah. That's been really helpful. And I think just extending grace to each other. Right? Like, we're we're both figuring this out together. And I think one of the biggest realizations that we've had, It happened like in our first year, I would say. He would tell me, “well, just tell me what you need and then I'll do it”. You know, because he didn't know. Right?
And then I'd look back at him and say, I don't know. I also don't know. This is also new for me. I don't know how to take care of this tiny human. Like, I'm learning myself. So I think when we both were able to really look at those raw moments and look at each other as, you know, we are both here just trying to figure it out and, like, extend that grace to each other - and assume positive intention. Like, we always bring that up. We might sometimes… partners say or do things that I might come off as hurtful, but when we can assume that there was positive intention behind that, then we can offer grace and then allow for repair and to for correcting the behavior.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Yeah. It sounds like really seeing each other as as teammates, as partners.

What was it like for you to go back to work and to make that decision?

Berenice:

It's been different for each of my children. For my first baby, I was really happy to go back to work. And, you know, again, this is my first pregnancy where, you know, it came sooner, motherhood had came sooner than I had planned. So I was ready to go to work. You know, it was kind of an escape for me from from this new role that I kind of jumped into and was feeling ill equipped for.
So going back to work was actually really good for me. I really needed to feel like myself again and to have that part of my identity back. So I went back pretty quickly. I'd say around four months and that was helpful to me.
For my second and third babies, it was the opposite. Like, I wanted the most time with them. I think, you know, by this time, I had fully accepted and embraced my role as a mom and was really cherishing those moments. And so I put off work as long as we possibly could. And going back to work was hard.
I wanted to be with my babies. And, you know, we made some kind of changes in in our lifestyle where I was able to even go from full time to part time to be home a little bit more. But it's changed. Right? And, like, my journey and motherhood has evolved and changed and my priorities have shifted. Where my priority is you know, being right now as much as I can with my babies and that I think that speaks to just having accepted this season in my life, you know.
And that was the challenging part in my first year, of motherhood with my first baby that I was fighting that season a little bit, I think.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Yeah. That makes sense. How did the idea of self-care shift for you during the first year?

Speaker 1: It felt non-existent for a little bit. It took a while, I think, to figure out how to incorporate that back into my life because it was going to look very different. You can’t just pick up and go with babies. So it took more planning. It took tapping into my support system a lot more. And, you know, it was possible, but it had to be very much planned and I had to be intentional about it. But, yeah, as often as I could, you know, I got away even if that meant you know, having a coffee break on my own in the car, but just having those few minutes to myself became really important. And it's something that my husband and I prioritize and we schedule around to make sure that we get our own time because that's important.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Is there a moment or a period of time that stands out to you most, looking back on the first year?

Berenice:

Yeah. Actually, thinking back to the first year, I can think of - my husband was at work and I'm home alone with this baby. It was probably within those first three months. And I remember sitting there looking at this baby and thinking you know, when is the mom coming?
Like, it just felt like I am a child. I don't know. I don't I am not ready for this. When is the mom coming to take care of this baby? I just couldn't believe. I'm the person. You know? Like, I'm mom, you know. And so I remember having that, kind of, like, little mini crisis. Like, this it's me. You know, like, I'm the person that has to figure this out. And so that was a scary moment, but also it felt empowering in other ways because it felt like you know, I can choose how to do this. I can decide, you know, how I parent. I can decide what I make of this journey. So, yeah, but I I do remember that moment of feeling like, you know, who's gonna come for this baby? It it just didn't feel real up until then.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

What makes you feel proud about your first year as a mother?

Berenice:

I think making it through, you know. It it sounds so simple, but, you know, when you're in the thick of it, it feels like forever, and it feels like you're just gonna be stuck in that moment. And you know, making it through feels like a big accomplishment because it doesn't feel like you can make it through when you're in the thick of it. But yeah, I think just making it - also just personal growth. I think maybe you don't feel it in that moment.
But when you can look back years later and and you see your own personal growth, your growth, if you're co-parenting and you have a partner, your growth in your relationship. Right? Then you're able to see kind of just the the positives that come out of it. But, yeah, definitely just feeling like you made it.
It felt like a proud moment.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

And you mentioned adjustment as a big part of your first year, and I imagine with being in grad school and going from being partnered to someone to co-parenting with someone, that there was a lot of things in your life that changed pretty quickly. It sounds like in that first year.

Berenice:

Mhmm. A lot of adjustments, it kind of felt like things that you have years to adjust to all were happening within this one year. And that was overwhelming. That's what made that first year even more overwhelming for me for sure.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

So tell me about your child's first birthday.

Berenice:

Gosh. You know, I have to really think about that one because it almost feels like a blur now. You know? But I do remember she started walking - she took a couple of her first steps on that day. So that was really special. Yeah. To see her take those first steps. And it just kind of felt like our first birthday celebration- My husband's and I. Like, we made it, you know, we got through this year. We didn't just keep her alive. Like, she seemed to be thriving. She was such a happy child and so talkative already at that age, and she was taking her first steps. So we didn't do anything big.
It was just a really small cake and a little get together with with grandparents. But it was special that we got to witness one of her milestones on that. On that birthday, so that definitely stands out. Mhmm.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Yeah. Super special.

The decision to have a child is so complicated. And then especially when there's mental health struggles after in the postpartum period. What was it like for you and your partner, your husband, to decide to have more children?

Berenice:

Yeah. We always, you know, so before we even got pregnant with our first we were already in talks of a family. Right? It just came sooner than we had planned.
But we'd always imagined having at least three babies. He comes from a big family. I come from a small family. And I just love the, like, chaos. I love, like, the the busy homes.
So I was on board with having more than two children. I actually wanted four. But after having my third and being outnumbered, we said there's no way. But, yeah, planning for more children was really just something that we had always kind of envisioned for ourselves. We wanted a larger family.
And we felt ready, I would say as ready as you can be after our first baby. Like, she extended so much grace to us as parents and kinda helped us through in that first year of parenthood, and she turned out just great.
Like, she's so awesome. And seeing her be awesome and be her own little person reassured us that, okay, I think we can do this again. You know? And by the the second time, it was there was a lot of planning involved, and so I felt ready just mentally, emotionally, to to take on that role.
And my second pregnancy was pretty smooth, and so was the postpartum period. My third was also part of the plan, but I think that one really threw me off because I was outnumbered. I don't know. But I definitely had a a tougher time with my third baby. I also during my pregnancies had a lot of morning sickness, like pretty much the entire nine months.
So that was really, like, depressing. I was just not myself. I couldn't be myself for my children. So already, like, I was exhausted from the pregnancy and then, like, the postpartum period just rocked my world.
So after our third, we decided, okay. We got our family. We're definitely done. As much as I wanted four, there's no way that we could make that happen without it starting to impact the quality of life for our entire family. You know?

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Sure. Yeah.

What delights you about each of your kids right now?

Berenice:

Oh my gosh. There you know, it's chaos right now, Molly, in the house. But their personalities, you know. Like, they're each just so different. My nine year old, she's always been this sassy, just creative little diva girl and she keeps us on our toes and she's, you know, she runs the house. She's definitely a little boss lady around here.

And then we have our five year old, who just wears his heart on his sleeve. He's just the sweetest, that looks out for everyone and just memorizes, like, facts. Like, I don't know how he remembers so many things, you know, and he corrects us all the time on, like, dino facts, on animal facts. And it’s just kind of a joy, you know, to see him come into his own and and to be so confident in what he's learning and he says he wants to be a scientist. So hopefully that turns out.

And then our two year old, he's just wild. He's our wild child. He just runs around the house, causing chaos and messing with other kids. So he knows he's the baby and he knows he can get away with it. So he's owning that. Yeah.

But it's chaos and it gets overwhelming, but there's always something going on, something we need to make it to and some practice or some activity, but it's gotten to the point where, like, we could just sit back, my husband and I, and, like, they're just, you know, living their own little lives and, like, making things happen, and we can just sit back and watch them. And it's so cool to see their relationship, just them build that relationship, taking care of each other. So, yeah, I feel like we've made it, Molly.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Wow! This was like, the family, the big, full, loud household that you had in mind! Yeah. What words of encouragement or wisdom do you have for moms who are in it right now?

Berenice:

You know, I heard this the other day and it really resonated. Someone said, like, we have seasons of giving, and then we have seasons of receiving. And as a new parent, we're in the season of receiving. And I would say it's so important to rely on your support systems. You know, it's okay to say, I don't know what I'm doing. The majority of us don't know what we're doing- and to ask for help.
Also, that it's never too late to ask for help. You know, like, I reached out after my third baby. So if at any point it feels like just unbearable or overwhelming or you just don't feel like yourself, it's okay to reach out to friends and family. And if that doesn't feel safe or, you know, like you're aren’t able to maybe lean on those systems, there's a lot of support out there, a lot of resources now, you know, a lot of support groups.
I love to see, like, I always get those in my feed now. And it's really cool. I'm like, where were these? I don't remember seeing these come up in my feed. But, yeah, there's a lot of help out there.
So I would say don't wait also for things to feel really bad. You know, like, you can get help at any point in your journey.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Get help. Absolutely.

Berenice:

You know, I think one resource that I wish I'd known about is Postpartum Support International, and I didn't know about that until, like, recently. And they just have so many support groups and so many resources and hotlines and, like, just chat. I think,, like texting. You can reach out a lot of different ways now.
So I wish I had known about that resource. Right? Because they can definitely, you know, connect you to to the supports that you're needing in that moment.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Where can people find you to connect?

Berenice:

Yeah. So I would say right now, probably through you is the best way. I am very passionate about perinatal mental health, and I am an aspiring perinatal mental health therapist. I hope to make that happen, but I don't yet have, like, you know, my web pages or anything like that set up.
When I do, then I will share that with you and then I’d be happy, you know, for you to share that with others. But, yeah, right now, if anyone wants to connect through you would be the best way.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

Sounds good. Alright, Berenice. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing about your story with us. We really appreciate it. And I think a lot of the experiences and the feelings that you shared about will really resonate with a with a lot of moms.
So thank you so much.

Berenice:

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Molly Vasa Bertolucci:

I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. If you loved this episode, please share it with a friend, review it, and subscribe to the podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes for links and information about any resources we mentioned in this episode. Thank you for listening.